{"id":29726,"date":"2025-08-18T08:00:52","date_gmt":"2025-08-18T15:00:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/?p=29726"},"modified":"2025-08-21T20:55:55","modified_gmt":"2025-08-22T03:55:55","slug":"emily-golden-and-rachel-may-on-story-theme-world-building-and-conflict","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/2025\/08\/18\/emily-golden-and-rachel-may-on-story-theme-world-building-and-conflict\/","title":{"rendered":"Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-29727 size-full\" title=\"Image of Beth Barany, Emily Golden and Rachel May \" src=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images.png\" alt=\"Image of Beth Barany, Emily Golden and Rachel May \" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images.png 300w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images-80x80.png 80w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images-1.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-29728 size-full aligncenter\" title=\"Quote from Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict\" src=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images-1.png\" alt=\"Quote from Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images-1.png 300w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/HTWTF-Episode-166-Blog-Images-1-80x80.png 80w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"notion-enable-hover\" data-token-index=\"0\">Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict &#8211; How To Write the Future podcast, episode 166<\/span><!-- notionvc: 7332dad7-a8d4-4a7c-9099-76afe7bfe13a --><\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cThe message of the story is the thing that they need to learn, which means that they have opposite beliefs that are preventing them, you know, flawed beliefs that are preventing them from learning the story message.\u201d <\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">&#8211; Emily Golden<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this special episode of How To Write the Future, host Beth Barany chats with Emily Golden and Rachel May about story theme, world building, and conflict. They share their collaboration journey and touch on diving into character arcs and the messages that drive stories. Plus, they explore why asking &#8220;why&#8221; is so crucial to helping writers develop their unique character arcs for their stories.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Platforms the podcast is available on:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/166-emily-golden-and-rachel-may-on-story-theme-world\/id1641025914?i=1000722423080\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>\u00a0|\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2012061\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Buzzsprout<\/a>\u00a0|\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/58P2LwTDKdBHw7pm8v2xSP\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a>\u00a0|\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/ca590618-5630-4450-aa17-7e2f35359a76\/how-to-write-the-future\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Amazon Music<\/a>|\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/a0CSiJJ2uMk?si=IR6HNIWEXl-UHLb2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a><\/p>\n<div align=\"center\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/a0CSiJJ2uMk?si=IR6HNIWEXl-UHLb2\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p><script type='text\/javascript' charset='utf-8' src='https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2012061.js?container_id=buzzsprout-large-player&#038;player=large'><\/script><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">RESOURCES<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><b>FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS &#8211; BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/bethbarany.com\/apprenticeship\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/bethbarany.com\/apprenticeship\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><b>Support our work for creatives!<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Buy me a coffee:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><b>GET HELP WITH YOUR WORLD BUILDING &#8211; START HERE<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Free World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers:<\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/world-building-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/world-building-resources\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><b>GET SOME FREE WRITING COACHING LIVE ON THE PODCAST<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Sign up for the 30-minute Story Success Clinic with Beth Barany:<\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/story-success-clinic\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/story-success-clinic\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><b>GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today:<\/b> <a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/discovery-call\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/discovery-call\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">About the How To Write the Future podcast\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How To Write The Future<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers.This podcast is for readers too if you\u2019re at all curious about the future of humanity.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This podcast is for you if you have questions like:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">&#8211; How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">&#8211; How do I figure out what&#8217;s not working if my story feels flat?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">&#8211; How do I make my story more interesting and alive?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This podcast is for readers, too, if you\u2019re at all curious about the future of humanity.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">ABOUT EMILY GOLDEN AND RACHEL MAY, BOOK COACHES\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-scaled.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-29729 size-medium\" title=\"Image of Emily Golden and Rachel\" src=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-200x300.jpg\" alt=\"Image of Emily Golden and Rachel\" width=\"200\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-200x300.jpg 200w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-681x1024.jpg 681w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-768x1154.jpg 768w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-1022x1536.jpg 1022w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-1363x2048.jpg 1363w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-640x962.jpg 640w, https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/golden-may-0048-Emily-Golden-scaled.jpg 1704w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 200px) 100vw, 200px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Emily Golden and Rachel May are the founders of Golden May. Their joint love of amazing stories and mutual fascination with writing craft evolved into a book coaching business devoted to helping tenacious writers develop the unique writing craft, process, and mindset that works for them\u2014because every writer is different. If you\u2019re ready to stop fighting what your writing life \u2018should\u2019 look like and start dreaming about what\u2019s possible for you, they&#8217;re the coaches for you!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Get the goodie: THE MAGIC OF CHARACTER ARCS: A free email course to craft the backbone of your story.<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/goldenmayediting.com\/arcsmagic\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/goldenmayediting.com\/arcsmagic<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Site:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/goldenmayediting.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/goldenmayediting.com<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Community program: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.tenaciouswriting.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.tenaciouswriting.com\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">INSTAGRAM:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/ebgoldenbooks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/ebgoldenbooks<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/instagram.com\/bookcoachrachel\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/instagram.com\/bookcoachrachel<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/instagram.com\/tenaciouswriting\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/instagram.com\/tenaciouswriting<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SUBSTACK:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/ebgolden.substack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/ebgolden.substack.com\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Transcript for episode 166 Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict<\/span><\/h2>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Introduction and Guest Welcome\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey everyone. Welcome back to How To Write the Future Podcast. I&#8217;m your host, Beth Barany. I&#8217;m a writing teacher, coach, editor, and also science fiction and fantasy writer. I&#8217;m excited to bring two people who together make one unit. They told me they&#8217;re one brain. I&#8217;m so excited to bring you both in.<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18] Meet Emily Golden and Rachel May\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We have Emily Golden and Rachel May. Welcome.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hi. Thanks so much for having us.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah. I&#8217;m so excited. Let me read your bio so everyone can know who you are.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Emily Golden and Rachel May are the founders of Golden May. Their joint love of amazing stories and mutual fascination with writing craft evolved into a book coaching business devoted to helping tenacious writers develop the unique writing craft process and mindset that works for them. Because every writer is different. If you&#8217;re ready to stop fighting what your writing life should look like and start dreaming about what&#8217;s possible for you. They&#8217;re the coaches for you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I love your bio so much. I am totally in line with your philosophy.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Welcome to Golden May.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pleasure to have you. Take you in. Come on in. We are now. Golden May Barany. We edit, we coach, we write.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We have a community.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s so wonderful. It&#8217;s so so wonderful.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[01:16] Discussing Theme and Message in Writing\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well let me put myself on the spotlight here and ask you, the first question and, and this will be free flow, free flowing.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Since I help primarily science fiction and fantasy writers, but also character driven writers, something that people struggle with and also I never come up with until I&#8217;m in editing toward final edits and sometimes not even then, which is theme. Some people get a little angsty about themes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some people are really good at deciding what is their story theme, but some people really do have a message also.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So how would you distinguish theme versus message and how do you define theme? And I guess my big question is also: Why theme? How is it important?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do you wanna start, Emily?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure. Yeah. I can take it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Great.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So theme is one of those things that I always struggle with &#8217;cause it&#8217;s so amorphous, right? It&#8217;s just this: what are your themes? And so we often talk about what Lisa Cron calls the story point.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Where it&#8217;s the message of your story essentially, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s how Lisa defines a story point, is, you have something that you&#8217;re trying to teach your reader, or through your characters, right? Your character learns a lesson and therefore your reader learns the lesson through their experience.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so it&#8217;s this takeaway from your story. It&#8217;s what your story is about at its core. And then I like to think of theme as sort of the pieces of the story point.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, I wrote down some examples &#8217;cause I feel like it&#8217;s, the definition&#8217;s hard. So let&#8217;s say, if we take the first <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Game of Thrones<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> novel, for instance, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We have that story point of that book is that there&#8217;s no room for honor in the game for power.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so the themes that are kind of baked into that story point are themes of power. We&#8217;re gonna explore, like what is power, what is honor? How are those things related, themes of politics and the games that are played in politics.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I like to think of, your story doesn&#8217;t usually have one theme. It&#8217;s usually looking at the intersections of different themes, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The intersection of family and love, or the intersection of perfection and belonging, right? And exploring how those themes work together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I think often times when folks try to start with theme it feels a little bit too amorphous, but if you can start to think through what is the actual takeaway that I want my book to have, then you get to explore what are the themes that are baked into that, and are those the themes that I wanna explore. Anything to add, Rachel?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I remember learning about theme in like eighth grade, right? Where your English teacher asks you to read a novel and tell me what are the themes of this book? And you&#8217;re like, I have no clue. I think that carries into this process of like, I wish I could tell you what they are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I know when I first started writing, I remember very distinctly filling out like a character interview sheet or like a novel planning sheet. And one of the questions was what are the themes of this book? And being like, hell if I know, I don&#8217;t know. I haven&#8217;t written it yet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I really align with what you were saying, Beth, of sometimes I don&#8217;t think you can truly see what this book is about until you&#8217;ve read it. I remember feeling like, if I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s about, how am I ever gonna write it? But I think the difference of what, when I learned what the story point was when I went into Lisa Cron&#8217;s teachings and understood that is a specific message that you aim towards, that gives your story cohesiveness.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then I started to understand okay, so if the point of my story is that Love heals all wounds, and I want my reader to learn that, and I want my characters to learn that. Then I have something to aim towards with my story choices. But if I just say, this story&#8217;s about love. Okay, what about love?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How, why? Like, where are we going?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I think getting more specific with a story point or with a message of your story just helps you focus, it gives you some focus, and it gets refined over time. I don&#8217;t think I ever truly know what the themes of my story are, or even what the message of my story is until after the second, or like the first draft. The second draft. I think I usually go into it with like, I&#8217;m aiming for something like this. Let&#8217;s see what happens.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Because it, it changes, it shifts, especially for me, when my characters take on life and a journey of their own and their flaws come to light. So it&#8217;s very impactful to give your story cohesiveness, but there&#8217;s not any one right place where you need to know what it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think discover these things and they firm up the further you get into the process.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, that&#8217;s great.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I really appreciate what you&#8217;re all saying here about theme and message because I too, I have clients who angst about this, who worry about this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I co-teach with my husband and he usually decides on theme as he&#8217;s planning. &#8217;cause he is more of a plotter, whereas I discover it toward the end of revisions and then again, also sometimes, not even until the book is published and people are like, oh, you&#8217;re writing about this.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I just wanna shout out to Lisa Cron. I have her books. I met her. I love <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wired for Story.<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I have two of her other books, which I haven&#8217;t yet read, but I am often referring to things that she said as well. And so it&#8217;s really wonderful that you&#8217;re both using her material. I think it&#8217;s so rich.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, the story point, we learned a lot from <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Story Genius<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, so I totally recommend that book. <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wired for Story<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> is incredible, but I think all of the tools that she has for baking into story is just all about there, there are parts of the whole, so it&#8217;s about strengthening the whole by understanding what are you doing with this story?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why are we here? Why do we care?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then, when you tighten all those pieces up, which world building is one of those pieces that we&#8217;re gonna talk about today?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You end up getting a really powerful and meaningful and like resonant, memorable, memorable story.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely. Yeah. I love that so much.<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[06:50] Exploring World Building\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So yeah, let&#8217;s move a little bit more into world building. This is definitely my domain. I&#8217;m teaching a class on setting. I talk a lot about world building in this podcast. And obviously as a science fiction and fantasy writer, this consumes me because I&#8217;m in love with thinking about these things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why should writers tie the cultures in, in your world, in your story world, even if it&#8217;s contemporary, to your themes? Let&#8217;s talk about the importance of WHY.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I think why goes back to similar why vein of theme in general, which is just to have a message, to have a point gives us cohesiveness, it gives a story direction.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And tying the world building back to that can really aid you in number one, enforcing that message. Like making it clear on the page, helping your characters learn it, but also, um, it helps it stay on track.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So if we have like a culture that feels really beautifully built out. We put so much effort into building it, but it has nothing to do with the point of what you&#8217;re trying to say, there&#8217;s going to be friction there, there&#8217;s going to be confusion points.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So what does it look like? How? We&#8217;ll get into that. But to give you like an example, if I&#8217;m telling a story about empowering women to stand up and claim their space in their world and to do that, they need to have power.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then I might have a world that systemically takes away from women&#8217;s power. I might have a world that&#8217;s built around maybe a magic system that&#8217;s built around women&#8217;s pain. Or maybe like a magic, a, a cultural system that puts women lower in the social strata. And that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s not like unheard of, like that&#8217;s a, I feel like a pretty common world building structure.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But that&#8217;s a world building that ends up getting tied to story&#8217;s themes, because the whole world is about women being told they&#8217;re less than. And our journey of change is about breaking that system apart, you know? And making a new system where women are not less than.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But if I had this women learning about women empowerment and going on this journey of change, but then their world is women are at the top and yay, nothing about that would be wonderful. Yay utopia. But women are at the top. Or like our magic system maybe has to do with water. Okay, that&#8217;s cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But like why? What&#8217;s the meaning behind that and how does this tie to the point? If it doesn&#8217;t, it&#8217;s not the end of the world, but if it does, you&#8217;re creating a cohesive experience where all these different Par, Peets, parses. All these different parts or pieces working together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The parses\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The parses are working together.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I love it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Just came up with a new concept. Yeah. I love that. I love that. It&#8217;s got my wheels turning. How about you, Emily? Do you have anything to add about why we need to&#8211;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I think so much of it comes down to character, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Because the message of your story is usually something that your character needs to learn whether they have a positive or negative arc, right? The message of the story is the thing that they need to learn, which means that they have opposite beliefs that are preventing them, you know, flawed beliefs that are preventing them from learning the story message.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for them to have flawed beliefs that are the opposite of the story point. And for them to go on this journey and need to have to learn the story point, then you almost have to bake in the themes into the world anyway, because the world is where they get their beliefs from, if that makes sense.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So if you have a character who believes that they have to be perfect in order to be loved, right? It&#8217;s a basic thing, right? Who&#8217;s teaching them that? Probably their culture, their society. And they have to learn the opposite of that, right? Some story point about how striving for perfection or something prevents love or, that might be the message of the story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think a lot of people accidentally, quote unquote, nothing&#8217;s an accident in writing. But I do think this is why often times a pantser will reach the end of their novel and be like, oh, there actually are themes in here, right? Because everything is connected, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Your character believes certain things &#8217;cause the world has taught &#8217;em those things. And so you end up with more in your novel, even when you&#8217;re not intending, plotting everything out. Because all those things are tied together.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, yeah. So I agree with you so much, and I can see as I&#8217;m in the middle like a &#8220;plotser&#8221;, do some planning and then a lot of follow my nose, follow my characters, follow my heart, that it&#8217;s a struggle in edits, in revisions to go, okay, I&#8217;m really in my intuition is saying create the world like this. My character is in this frame of mind at the beginning of the story. I know roughly her character arc from here to there. I&#8217;m in this place right now, in revisions, this setting needs to be acting a bit more upon my character.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The world, she&#8217;s in a new location, a new space station, so she&#8217;s a stranger in this place. And it&#8217;s impacting her, and it&#8217;s starting to shift her, change her in ways that she does not understand. And me, as the writer in revisions, I&#8217;m like, okay, I haven&#8217;t nailed it yet. I haven&#8217;t made this setting specific enough and I haven&#8217;t made what&#8217;s going on with her a little clear enough there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some of my beta readers are like, wait, what? What&#8217;s going on? It seems like it feels like you&#8217;re spending too much time on her interior life. I know that the reason they&#8217;re saying that is because I don&#8217;t, we don&#8217;t know where she&#8217;s going.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The reader is lost. And if the reader is lost, that means I haven&#8217;t made the connections because I haven&#8217;t quite decided on what they are yet. I&#8217;m just feeling my way through it still, to help writers bring it more explicit. And obviously I&#8217;m chewing on this right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[12:14] Interplay Between World Building and Character Arc\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How can world building be used to amplify your character&#8217;s change arc? And how can we more specifically tie it to theme also?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I just also wanna underscore, I totally love what you said about how the character&#8217;s problem, the character&#8217;s limited belief and, it is baked right into their environment.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s from their culture, their upbringing, all the things, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The mix of nature, nurture the mix of received and perceived beliefs from everything around them and the people around them and the history and everything that came into the moment where they get to experience their life.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I try to write character change stories, transformation stories. I&#8217;m writing mysteries so often in those stories, the main character doesn&#8217;t change a lot. But this book is actually meant to be like a big pivot, big pivot book from the previous four books that are published into kind of a new orientation for my character, but not totally new, but new enough.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Anyway, I&#8217;m talking a lot. Um, I&#8217;m curious. As you can see, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m always working on my story. Um, yeah, so that interplay, I guess we&#8217;re talking about: How can the world building of the science fiction and fantasy world be used more specifically for character change? What in the environment is impacting on the character and how they can change and then connecting that back to theme?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think there&#8217;s a lot of different ways to do it. There&#8217;s a lot of entry points, so what we&#8217;ve talked about a lot is figuring out what your story point is, whether that&#8217;s you do it now or you do it after your first or second draft whenever.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But having that story point message, however refined, gives you a center point for this, for an interconnected web right? Of how you&#8217;re going to tie all these things together. And so I think if you&#8217;re starting with a brand new idea, I would ask: What is the thing that is exciting you about the story?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for some people, that&#8217;s the character and the wound that they have for other people, it&#8217;s a cool part of the world and that&#8217;s awesome, right? If you know, this is not how it worked for me, or my series that&#8217;s out, <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Behind The Crimson Curtain<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, my main character can change her face.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s the only magic that&#8217;s in the world is face changing. I actually didn&#8217;t start with the face changing. That came in my second draft of the first act. But my point is I didn&#8217;t start there, but I could have started there, and if I had started there, right? Oh, I have this idea for a story where I want my main characters, I want her to be able to change her face.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s okay, that&#8217;s cool. What themes are baked into that magic, right? Well, you&#8217;ve got themes of deception, you have themes of truth, like who is she really? And you can start to follow that path to like, okay, what kind of journey? Like what kind of change, arc of change could I send that character who can do that magic on, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And you can enter that way through the world if that&#8217;s where your interest starts, or as actually happened with me, I had a character who I knew I wanted to be a con artist. She came to me as a con artist, and I knew she wanted to be someone who lies to everybody about who she is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so then I was able to be like, okay, what magic could she have? She could change her face, right? And so there&#8217;s just like a lot of ways that you can enter the web, but making sure that every, all of your choices are connected and thematically intersect, I think is the way to build a cohesive story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I love that. Yeah. It makes me think about how the whole reason I built this space station is that I wanted people to come together with an idealistic vision, and so my attention goes, okay, I need to go back to that backstory. I have, I&#8217;ve come up with the character who&#8217;s the builder, who she is, where she comes from, and then how she makes it happen and why she makes it happen.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It predates my story by 80, 90 years, something like that. But it is baked into the physical environment that my main character&#8217;s walking around in. And it is a part of the story that is still not completely locked in, which is my critique partners are like, Where are we? Do you have a map of this place?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By their questions, I can tell there&#8217;s a big hole here that I need to design so that even though my main character doesn&#8217;t know where she is and is discovering the location as she travels and meets people, et cetera, that me as the world builder, I know what it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so to do that, I have to go and create a little better the, the whole origin story of the place, which is in, in like broad brush strokes right now. So I know as soon as I, once I lock that in and it&#8217;s not just how it was built and it&#8217;s also with what was it built, so, uh, &#8217;cause I have this whole plant thing going on, and it impacts the present of the story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s where I need to go.This is my revision process.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you for letting me share.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And Rachel, did you have anything to add to this idea? The interplay between world and character arc and theme?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I 100% agree and what I would add is probably like a 201. Okay, what&#8217;s next?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We feel interconnected and I think in speculative worlds there, a lot of times there&#8217;s more than one culture. So how do we play with that?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[16:58] Exploring Multiple Cultures in Writing\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How do we build multiple cultures? How are all of these different cultures staying in conversation with our message or our point? How are we gonna connect them all?<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[17:07] The Power of Asking &#8220;Why&#8221;\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I think one of the biggest questions that helped me, especially my early days, but even now and in the way that I coach writers, is a simple little why. Why are we doing that? I hate it. I hate it. Being asked why? Because you&#8217;re telling me I have to explain myself? But I do think that asking that question <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">why<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> is very helpful and very impactful.<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[17:28] Critique Partners and Evolution of Stories\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When I first met Emily, we met as critique partners and we met on Twitter, and that&#8217;s how we grew a relationship. And then we decided, oh, we should become coaches after a while. But, we met as critique partners and one of the first things that she asked me, why? And I was like, because.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And like, unfortunately, because isn&#8217;t a great response.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So like I had a world where there was a nuclear war and then in the fallout of that, people gained magic abilities. And then my whole, that was the whole backdrop of the world. And then, Emily would be like, why? And I&#8217;m like, because that&#8217;s just what happened, sorry.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the reason that question existed was because it had nothing to do with my character&#8217;s journey. That was an interesting thing about the world, was that there was nuclear war, then suddenly people could use magic. But what did that have to do with the characters in my world?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So WHY is a really good one.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[18:26] Conflict and Culture in Storytelling\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I think asking that question to multiple different cultures can introduce a lot of really interesting conflict. I think conflict is also part of culture, and conflict is part of journeys of change. So they work really well together. So if you have multiple cultures, how are they different?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why, or even within a culture, is there conflict? What&#8217;s it like? Are there multiple factions? How has that conflict shaped your characters and how do they live within that conflict?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And it doesn&#8217;t have to be huge. There&#8217;s so many different kinds of conflict. There&#8217;s oppression and then there&#8217;s also conflict where you&#8217;re taught that if you express yourself, you get in trouble.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s so many different kinds of conflict, which can create really interesting cultures. So, however many you feel like you have, we&#8217;re still asking that question: Why? How did this happen? How did this create our characters? How does this tie into the journey that we&#8217;re going on?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s great.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is so fascinating. I think our, our listeners are gonna get a lot out of this, especially writers out there. If you are a total pantser or somewhere in between, or even someone who tends to plan ahead of time, but then your story gets away from you. I think if you can hear from what Rachel and Emily are saying about the interplay, it keeps shifting and changing as we work on our revisions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I hope writers, you&#8217;ll take away from it that you know, revisions its process and uh, and I love, back to your original message in your bio, like there isn&#8217;t one right way to go about writing a book. I tell my clients this all the time and my students. It&#8217;s really, our job is to learn our own process and to really embrace what&#8217;s working and come from strengths. My perspective anyway, and so a lot of the work I do as a coach is helping people excavate their own like interests and that thread, that kind of like magical fizzy, electric, passionate golden thread that is their guide and helping them find their own, to use another metaphor as some north star, you know, and help them really trust themself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I really feel like you both are coming from that perspective as well. It&#8217;s so beautiful.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[20:28] Writing the Future: Perspectives and Hopes\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I have a little lightning round question then, um, I would love to find out from each of you: When you hear <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How to write the future<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, what does that mean to you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think to me it, it means like, um, I mean obviously there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s looking ahead, but there&#8217;s looking ahead with hope or trepidation or concern or fear and I, I think there&#8217;s a lot of different ways to look at the future and whatever we&#8217;re saying with our stories, we&#8217;re like exploring those emotions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Just like what will it be like and how do I feel about that? Do I want it to be that way, a different way? What can I picture?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I hope I am always going to be a glass half full kind of person. So even though there are more than likely going to be big problems in the future, I also think that there still will be humans with big hearts and big hope. And so I, that&#8217;s what I think about when writing the future. I would want my stories to speak to that.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah, it makes me think of, I feel like all science fiction and fantasy in some way, shape, or form, right? Because we&#8217;re re-imagining the world in some way, shape, or form. And I think there are all exercises in what could the world look like, even with magic and all that stuff, right? It&#8217;s really about the people. It&#8217;s about the relationships, the connections, like who&#8217;s in power, what does that look like? Who has power? How is it used? And so I feel like those are the big questions that, that this genre, these genres specifically look at.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I think there&#8217;s a lot of imagination that can be used to kind of project, right? We&#8217;re exploring, what could happen? What do we want to happen? And I think that&#8217;s important. I think it&#8217;s really important, especially as things fall apart, we have to put them back together somehow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. Oh, I love that so much. And I love what you both said there, so thought provoking. I really do believe fiction is where we get to explore and we get to play and we get to ask <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">what if.<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And we also get to try it on like children who do dress up. Stories are a way for us as writers, but obviously also for the readers to go, oh, yeah, I want to explore. What could I do in that situation? Or how? How could I be and what could I learn? And thank you character for going through that hardship.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I don&#8217;t have to.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. It&#8217;s a safe place to explore those what ifs. Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[22:47] Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have enjoyed this conversation so much with you both and I look forward to continuing more conversations.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m gonna be on your podcast right at some point?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>EMILY GOLDEN: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. Sometime here soon.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>RACHEL MAY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tabling stories. We can talk about writing. Yeah. World building. Anything .<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>BETH BARANY:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s so great. I&#8217;d love it. Okay. I&#8217;m gonna just say, thank you so much both for coming on How To Write The Future, and I&#8217;m gonna do my typical sign off for everyone. Write long and prosper. That&#8217;s a wrap. \u200b<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2012061\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2012061<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>Need instructions on how to leave a review?<\/b>\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/leave-a-podcast-review\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Go here.<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">***<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><b>Support our work for creatives: leave a tip:\u00a0 <\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">***<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">ABOUT BETH BARANY<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/BETH-BARANY_2023_300px_01-e1692481023683.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-27411 size-full\" title=\"Image of Beth Barany\" src=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/BETH-BARANY_2023_300px_01-e1692481023683.png\" alt=\"Image of Beth Barany\" width=\"200\" height=\"200\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beth Barany teaches science fiction and fantasy novelists how to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, teacher, consultant, and developmental editor. She\u2019s an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and runs the podcast, \u201cHow To Write The Future.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/author.bethbarany.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Author site<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \/\u00a0 <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/bethbarany.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Coaching site<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \/ <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/baranyschooloffiction.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">School of Fiction<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \/ <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.writersfunzone.com\/blog\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Writer\u2019s Fun Zone blog<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">CONNECT<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Contact Beth: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/podcast\/#tve-jump-185b4422580\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/podcast\/#tve-jump-185b4422580<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Email: beth@bethbarany.com<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LinkedIn:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/bethbarany\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/bethbarany\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">IG: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/bethbarany\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/bethbarany\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">TT: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@bethbarany\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@bethbarany\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">FB: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/bethbarany\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/bethbarany<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">X: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/BethBarany\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/twitter.com\/BethBarany<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">CREDITS\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">EDITED WITH DESCRIPT:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> https:\/\/www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA <\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(Refer-a-Friend link)<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/uppbeat.io\/t\/soundroll\/fuzz-buzz\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> https:\/\/uppbeat.io\/t\/soundroll\/fuzz-buzz<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. \u201cFuzz buzz\u201d by Soundroll. Commercial license:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/musicvine.com\/track\/soundroll\/fuzz-buzz\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> https:\/\/musicvine.com\/track\/soundroll\/fuzz-buzz<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/?referrer_id=1994465\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/?referrer_id=1994465<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> (Refer-a-Friend link)<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">c 2025 BETH BARANY<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/bethbarany.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/bethbarany.com\/<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For more \u201cHow To Write the Future\u201d episodes, go <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/podcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here.<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you\u2019d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/writersfunzone.com\/blog\/contact-beth\/#contactbeth\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here.<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u2705 Like the work we do? Tip us! <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">https:\/\/ko-fi.com\/bethbarany<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Emily Golden and Rachel May on Story Theme, World Building, and Conflict &#8211; How To Write the Future podcast, episode 166 *** \u201cThe message of the story is the thing that they need to&#46;&#46;&#46;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":29727,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5099],"tags":[6678,140,6296,8,6672,4607,5160,2628,6677,6674,2551,1346,6679,6211,6673,2688,1721,6676,6675,5163,2771,5183,5095,5162,2552,5164,1490,5165],"class_list":["post-29726","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-how-to-write-the-future-podcast","tag-asking-why","tag-beth-barany","tag-character-arcs","tag-conflict","tag-emily-golden","tag-fiction-writing-tips","tag-futuristics","tag-game-of-thrones","tag-golden-may","tag-intersectional","tag-lisa-cron","tag-magic","tag-multiple-cultures","tag-power","tag-rachel-may","tag-story-arc","tag-story-conflict","tag-story-genius","tag-story-theme","tag-story-world-building","tag-storytelling","tag-strategic-foresight","tag-themes","tag-tips-for-fiction-writers","tag-wired-for-story","tag-write-the-future","tag-writing-coaching","tag-writing-teaching"],"yoast_head":"<!-- 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